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Andries Krugers Dagneaux

Andries Krugers Dagneaux is an ex-devotee of Sathya Sai Baba. He has been involved as the webmaster of the main Dutch ex-Baba website, and is an Wikipedia link active contributer to Wikipedia, especially in pages to do with "cults" and "gurus" (words in inverted commas, because the true guru does not act in this manner, and "cult" is a prejudicial western term used by both skeptical materialists and conservative mainstream religionists). On Wikipedia he has been strongly criticised by Joe Moreno and others, who consider that Andries is too biased to serve as editor on these controversial subjects.

Andries first contacted me in 2001 and I included his email on my Sai Baba page. I then forgot about him and did not recognise the name when, after having met Mr Moreno, the latter mentioned him as a wikipedian who makes biased edits. Being concerned as I am with Wikipedia link Wikipedia neutrality (I had at this time recently started contributing to Wikipedia) I checked out the pages and discovered to my surprise that, apart from one, they all seemed perfectly fine to me.

For some months now there has been an ongoing argument between Joe and his supporters, and Andries, on the Sai Baba talk page, concerning the question of content on the Wikipedia link Sai Baba article. While the page may have originally been somewhat negative towards Sai Baba, Moreno wants it to go the other way, to be negative to ex-devotees. It may be that, in emotional discussions concerning cults, wikipedia objectivity breaks down, because unlike the creation-evolution question, there is no objective criteria for what constitutes a cult.

Originally, before I was aware of the nature of the ad hominem attacks Joe Moreno makes against ex-devotees, I also made some critical comments on the talk pages regarding the contributions of ex-devotees. Having been on the one hand very disillusioned by the judgmental attitude, mud-slinging and slanders that Mr Moreno launches against ex-devotees, and observed on the other the fact that, however biased Andries may have been in the past (in fact he admits he was biased at one time, which may explain why several other wikipedians who I have a high regard for are against him), I have since modified my stance in this regard.

One thing that impresses me greatly is the restrained manner in which Andries responds to the aggressive accusations by Joe Moreno. Others may feel different, but for me, it is a sign of a true gentleman for someone to act in a civilized and mature manner, without resorting to displays of temper or ranting, when confronted with an accuser acting towards them in an immature and emotional manner. However, the reader is invited to read the correspondence themselves (on the Sai Baba talk page), to come to their own conclusions.

In one regard however, I completely disagree with Andries. Andries - from what I gather - considers Sai Baba a fake, and does not think that spiritual experiences can be associated with him. However, my understanding is that the experiences still are genuine, they are authentic realities on the astral and perhaps also the subtle physical, even if the human Sai Baba is guilty of abuse of trust by, and even of making sexual advances on, his devotees.


Web links Link Web links

external link 'Calumny' Confirmed - From: Andries Krugers Dagneaux - why Andries stopped being a devotee of Sai Baba





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page by M.Alan Kazlev
page uploaded 15 September 2006